5. My father and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn al-Walid (may Allah have mercy on them) both said: Ahmad ibn Idris and Muhammad ibn Yahya al-`Attar both said, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Ahmad, on the authority of Sahl ibn Ziyad, on the authority of Muhammad ibn al-Husayn, on the authority of `Ali ibn Ya`qub al-Hashimi, on the authority of Marwan ibn Muslim that Ibn Abu al-`Awja’ entered the presence of `Abu `Abd Allah al-Sadiq and said:

“Do you not claim that Allah is the Creator of Everything?” Abu `Abd Allah replied, “Most certainly.” He said: “I also create.” The Imam asked him, “How do you create?” He responded, “I relieve my bowels in a place, then I stay away from it, and it makes insects. Therefore, this is my creation.” Abu `Abd Allah replied, “Is not the creator of something aware of what he has created?” He answered, “Why not?” The Imam said: “So, can you distinguish the male from the female, and the young from the old, among those insects?” The reporter says: Ibn Abu al-`Awja’ kept silent.